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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #1 
This topic is about concept of unique weapon in the game. In the light of the recent publication of the future of wargameproject, I propose to discuss the concept artifacts in the game to help the developer to decide with this in their mind.

I think it would be better if all the questions associated with the artifacts we split in the points.
So:
1) what is it artifact?
2) how and who can use it?
3) how it it appears in the game?
4) What effect is given?

My original concept is:
1) first of all it should be sword because in many stories, tales, games, sword takes a special place. But it may be another weapon too or even armor. Weapon should have unique graphics. Unique weapons do not exist as an object on the map, and is tied to any a unit. What types of artifacts can exist is an open question.
2) I admit that the sword can be worn (but not use) by any units, including non-combat, like monks. But the artifacts can only used by heroes / barons. If your hero was killed, but your army is still alive, there is no need to conduct another hero to the place of the battle to pick up the artifact. If you kill an enemy hero with the artifact and destroyed his army, this artifact is transferred to you.
3) I had a few variants. First is that weapon falls to the player from a artifacts merchant for some fee. The second is that weapon was located on the map at a strong neutral army from the start of game. Third is that you can find it in ruins with a good guard (2 troll). It was one of the most difficult questions
4) it is the least-designed part. I suggested something like a bonus against specific races, orcs, dwarves, humans, and so on, but the question of weapons effect is also open.

In a few words, I image the concept as follows: weapons can be captured after the battle, it is difficult to get it, and it should give a significant bonus.

I will not give all the details of the discussion with Megas and Baruk, just say how the concept has changed in my mind:

1) Weapon should have unique graphics. it can be not only sword or bow but a detail of armor, for example shield. Unique weapons can exist as an object on the map, after the battle, if the hero is dead, artifact will left on the battlefield until it someone will pick up, respectively, also it is necessary to create new image of the battlefield with the artifact. What types of artifacts can exist is still an open question (in addition to swords, bows, axes and shields). Megas also noted that now there is a unique weapon and a shield - dark Ambassador has them.
2) Only heroes can use and wear artifacts (dark ambassador and dark knights from the dark race). This means that if your hero dies and there are no another hero in the army - artifact will left on the battlefield until he is selected by another hero.
3) Quest system looks much more ideal for artifacts. The quest system can also exists for dark race. But doing only one quest reduced to a simple battle in nearby ruins - so as a reward for a single quest such weapons can not be viewed. Megas proposed the following: after the quest system will be expanded, artifacts can be given for the making of a series of quests. And all of these quests should pass the same hero. So It will not be easy to get unique weapon. I think a series of quests  is a good solution of this problem
4) in addition to the bonus against races, Megas proposed to make crashproof Shield, it can be very usefull for human heroes. But the point about bonuses from weapons is still under question

All of this questions we need to discuss.
Now I can also add other questions:
-What the maximum number of unique weapons should be, and should it be limited at all?
a list of questions will be added during the discussion [smile]

So, as I said, I see the meaning of the discussion in order to help developers to better consider the concept of artifacts in the game. Any ideas, thoughts, comments and suggestions are welcomed) mainly I offer to start from the the second part post, second concept. The first is presented as an example of another (initial) view about the artifacts, its quite crude and unexamined, while after a brief discussion some problems (for examle 3 questions about how to enter artifact in the game) get real incarnation.

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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #2 
Good stuff. I like what you write here. I think when our freelancer graphics artist finishes his current assignment, we can ask him to draw weapons and items. That will surely include artifacts: swords, armour, shields, etc.
 
From the point of game system everything is possible. Unique sword could:
  • shatter enemy weapons
  • suck the life or energy out of wounded (or slain) enemies
  • cut through multiple enemies at once
  • deflect arrows

Unique armour could:
  • protect its wearer from magic/stun/critical damage
  • return back received damage
  • cast fear upon enemies that have seen it
  • protect from slayer abilities
Possibilities are endless. [smile]
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #3 
The work has started. Not much to show at this point, but artifacts are coming. We are also going to introduce diablo-like inventory management for units.примерн куклы копия.jpg   



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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #4 
Some early examples by our freelancer artist.

Примеры доспехов.jpg 



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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #5 
diablo-like inventory sounds quite fun... and also quite fitting here in your 'project' absolutely i can see it

-and again - simply Amazing artwork throughout, even these 'early examples' are just.... perfect 


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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #6 

Привет всем! Дико извиняюсь, что пишу на русском, однако сейчас совсем нет времени переводить, перевод будет позже( сейчас, к сожалению, очень мало времени могу уделять игре, о новой интересной версии и своих впечатлениях напишу позднее и, наверное, в отдельной теме, пока же хочется написать первые мысли по поводу постов выше.

Диабло-подобный инвентарь это весьма интересное решение, особенно интересны кольца и амулеты, поскольку их ещё нет) я правильно понимаю, что кольца и амулеты будут доступны всем (или почти всем) юнитам, а у разных типов юнитов будут разные кольца с разными эффектами? И если с действием брони и оружия всё понятно, то какой эффект будет от колец и амулетов? будут ли среди артефактов кольца и амулеты для героев с особыми эффектами?
В последнем обновлении появилась очень интересная вещь, у руин теперь есть уровни. Будут ли артефакты разных уровней (т.е. предусмотрена ли какая-то градация артефактов по их силе действия)?

Первая мысль, которая пришла, когда я увидел рисунок, что было бы прикольно, чтобы вместо оружия можно было бы брать магию и прямо ставить какой магией будет пользоваться юнит (некая отсылочка к скайриму). Возникла такая идея, может, в часовнях и волшебных башнях (и впредь везде где вербуются маги) тоже сделать такую панельку с выбором доспехов (только без доспехов) где можно будет выбрать какой магией будет пользоваться маг, кольца и амулеты тут тоже придутся очень кстати, тк они воспринимаются как некие волшебные талисманы-обереги [выглядть это будет примерно так, нажимаете на часовню, открывается окно вербовки монаха, выбираете ему в руки те школы, которые хотите чтобы у него были, например, исцеление и разрушение или исцеление и алхимию и тд]. Или можно сделать менее категорично, например, не выбирать полностью школы магии, какие будут доступны данному волшебнику, а некоторые уклоны в сторону 1 или 2 школ, которые прибавят некоторые заклинания к стандартной волшебной книге юнита [в отличие от предыдущего варианта у юнита как сейчас будет базовая книга заклинаний и при выборе уклонов в сторону каких-то школ он будет дополнительно получать некоторые простые заклинания этих школ]. Сейчас уже можно создавать довольно гибкую армию заточенную под что-то конкретное (разное оружие, броня и тд). Основная мысль в том, чтобы можно было создавать гибкую армию магов. В общем эту тему при желании тоже можно развивать, причем в разных направлениях.

По поводу количества слотов на ногах надо исходить из того, зачем оно нужно. Правильно ли я понимаю, что броня в бою служит некоторой вероятностью того, пробьет доспех или нет летящая стрела или бьющее копьё/топор/меч? То есть выходит что с появлением второго доспеха на ногах, мишеней станет больше и вместе с тем просто увеличится возможности того что стрела лишний раз может взять и пробить коленную чашечку (условно). Хочется понять механику, что изменится от того, что броня на ногах будет разделена на две части.

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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #7 
Hi, Toxaz. Thanks for your comments. I very much like your idea about managing mage school specialization for spell casters. Definitely, we will add this kind of customization in the game. [thumb]

As for the number of armour slots on legs - it is not going to change. There was a discussion with our freelancer artist about graphical representation of armour. We have no plans to change current implementation.

Rings and amulets are mostly meant to be used by heroes and nobles. I think they will all have magical effects, since I cannot imagine what benefits a ring or an amulet may bring, if they are non-magic items.

We don't have specific plans regarding artifact levels. But surely, not all artifacts will be created equal. I even foresee some artifact sets (i.e: pieces of armour - of greater power when combined together).


For your information, armour mechanics works like this:
* Reduces or completely blocks penetrative damage, while remaining intact. Armour quality is not reduced. Consequent penetrative strikes have the same chance to penetrate armour.
* Resists or blocks cutting damage, while being destroyed when damage is blocked. When armour piece is shattered it does not offer any protection anymore. Attacks are delivered directly to body. When damage is resisted, armour remains intact.
* Negates critical strikes (x3 multiplier)
* Can protect from stun, magic, fire and etc if these attributes are specified (i.e: knight's armour has 20% protection from stun). This is mostly reserved for future use.
* Contributes to encumbrance. The heavier the armour the more energy points is spent when unit makes an attack.
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #8 
The discussion continues. This is all work in progress to show you where we are heading. I'll post more updates as we proceed to final version inventory management view.
ЛИСТ под куклу ПОД РАЗМЕР НУЖНЫЙ вариант.jpg 

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Ganeleon

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Reply with quote  #9 
We should remember that we have among the heroes non human units. Will they have the same slots or different.
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #10 
Non human races will be dealt accordingly. We'll review all exceptional cases.
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #11 
Work in progress:

Оружие, общий сет для демонстрации.jpg 

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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #12 
Some more work in progress:
ОТРИСОВКА ОРУЖИЕ-АМУЛЕТЫ-ПАНЦИРИ_демонстрация_этапа.jpg 

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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #13 
looks like very good)
and what about rings and shields?)
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks! Those are in progress. I will post as soon as I receive update from our artist. I don't remember if he showed me the drafts for rings, but the shields, which he showed me were awesome! [smile]
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #15 
More work in progress:
Шлема демонстрация.jpg 

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