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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #1 
I`ve just ended my first game, and I almost sure that I win largely with help of bandits, making sabotage behind enemy lines. So I want to discuss how balanced is the bandit threat.

So, bandit lairs are everywhere and just if you have enough money you can try to sabotage, raze farms ana capture cities, because you get full stack of units in enemy`s rear. How to avoid it? Little garrison can defend cities, but not farms and mines. Outside of city wall bandits will raze and kill. Second sollution is to destroy all bandit lairs. This has several disadvantages. First of all it does not protect completely against the bandit threat, the enemy can hire bandits at home and try to transfer them insensibly to the rear through the woods. It's expensive, but it`s possible and can be effective. Secondly we have to incur losses and more importantly - spend army`s time, instead of fighting on the front line they will be scour forrests. In my first game there were 4 lairs in enemy rear, so we need at least 3-4 armies to destroy them. It`s too much I think.

Tactic of bandit threat is particularly effective for dark side because they don`t need gold at all, so all income from mines and farms, from pillaging you may put in bandits. Pillaging and other sources of income is enough to control 2-3 full bandit armies. I don`t want to say that they are strong, but there are a lot of them. 180g it`s not a problem and you get for this money full army.

So, to have bandits army in rear of enemy you just need to have 180g+80 p/t. To avoid it you have to have enough garrison in each town or several armies to destroy threat. It`s obvious that it`s easier to make threat than to defend from it. So I think It`s too cheating(

And what do you think about balance of bandit threat?
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megas

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Reply with quote  #2 
Good post! Thanks for the topic.

Bandits can be very dangerous, however as with many features in the game they are more dangerous to novice players and veteran players can more or less effectively protect themselves. 

Some bonuses for destroying bandit layers:
  • bandits collect gold (each turn they have more and more gold until they reach around 200), so when lair is destroyed player gets all the gold
  • old lairs may also have prisoners (depending on the closest city - if human, then knight, if dwarven, then champion), so when destroyed the prisoner is released and may join player
  • reputation increased
  • experience for your troops! this is very important, veterans make a difference in our game.. remember deadly mercenaries are identical to regular troops except they have boosted experience, so every unit can become as one of them or even stronger... killing a bandit lair is a chance to get experience without the risk of being finished off by the enemy
Some tips to protect against bandits:
  • Player ALWAYS gets notification (dialog window) when there is a nearby bandit lair ready for hire, so you will know which city is the closest to the lair and will have few turns before enemy hires them
  • when this happens (you get notification), you should immediately raise garrison in that city, even if bandits capture that city, many of them will die
  • if you have a baron knight you should use skill to summon a hawk and fly around all your forrests to locate bandit lairs, so you know beforehands
  • baron can join militia from the villages and put them on the walls
  • dwarves are almost immune to that because they have Elders in each city and that is a very powerful unit that can kill a dozen of bandits on his own
  • dark race can not produce in cities, so even if bandits capture city in the rear you will be able to retake it! 
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #3 
Some of us think that bandit threat on the contrary is insignificant.  This is what makes it not so effective, in my opinion:

  • You receive a warning about bandit activity. It makes bandits less unpredictable.
  • Scouting is cheap. You can have plenty of scouting units. Just produce some archers, summon hawks or adopt dogs and patrol the woods. Bandits are easy to find and be prepared.
  • Destroying bandits is a good source of gold income and experience for your troops. Also, you improve your reputation.
  • If you are playing Men you can hire them yourselves! You need a unit with 'bandit friend' (i.e: ranger hero of Men). When I cannot destroy them, I just hire them (doing it once does not mar your reputation very badly). You can use bandits from one lair to kill bandits from another. Problem solved.
  • Keeping some troops in garrison is not actually a bad idea. I for one prefer moving packs or armies of units (it is much safer, since there can be wolves waiting for your scouts and defenseless archers!) so I keep them garrisoned until I have enough of them.
  • If I lose a village or a gold mine. I don't care. Castles are my production and resource gathering points. Keep your castles safe. Who controls the castle controls the territory.
Experienced player is very hard to catch with bandits. Megas, for example, thinks that we need more options for diversions. [smile]
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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks for your answers! I`m newbie in the game so it`s not easy to assess balance with accuracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by megas
  • dwarves are almost immune to that because they have Elders in each city and that is a very powerful unit that can kill a dozen of bandits on his own
  • dark race can not produce in cities, so even if bandits capture city in the rear you will be able to retake it! 

As I understand, men are more vulnerable to bandit threat then others. I start to play for men in "no way out" map and will try to use your advices. After that I`ll understand more precisely what I think about the bandit threat.

Despite warnings and ease of exploration, the biggest drawback I believe is the need to send the army, and probably not even one. Although you get the profit you distract some forces and it may carry unpleasant consequences. But this idea is greate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baruk
  • If you are playing Men you can hire them yourselves! You need a unit with 'bandit friend' (i.e: ranger hero of Men). When I cannot destroy them, I just hire them (doing it once does not mar your reputation very badly). You can use bandits from one lair to kill bandits from another. Problem solved.

I`ll try to use it, it may really neutralize the threat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baruk
Megas, for example, thinks that we need more options for diversions. [smile]


I`ll try to change his opinion in our game, that bandit threat is weak) But may be it would interesting to have many ways for diversions, but they should be balanced. I think that the organization of the sabotage should be at least costly than it`s prevention. Because you do not know when, where and what will happen and how many resources you eventually lost due to diversion, and if you want you can take some preventive measures but they should not be more expensive than diversion itself.
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #5 
If you manage to defeat Megas, consider yourself a pro! [cool]
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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #6 
Although its not a bandit threat, i feel it goes along with the topic in general, as its another hurdle that we typically come across as we navigate our world> so i ask it here:

Orc Huts> aside from gaining gold and experience, many times they block the path to needed resources, or worse, they block the path to your most efficient travel routes. What is the most efficient way to deal with them, as far as troop configuration goes? Its the pesky Big Troll that causes the trouble...not so much his cohorts. 

In a hot seat game (w/myself) i seemed to get good results using catapult one turn before sending troops, but id like to test that theory again when i have time before i draw conclusion.
Also> in typical game against opponent it might not always be so easy to run a catapult across the land 
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #7 
Big bad troll that is causing trouble was added not so long ago, when we decided that orc settlements were way too easy to capture. Troll eats light infantry for dinner, so send a full stack of 10 heavy spearmen + 10 archers. They will do the job, but you may lose some units though. 

By the way, if you continue bombarding with catapult you can destroy the orc hut completely. If it becomes razed you will not have to fight with garrisoned troops.
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #8 
One more thing. Enslaved orc settlements are not producing units. But if your reputation reaches certain negative level (<=-51, you become dark human!), orc settlements will not be considered enslaved and will start producing troops. Mind though that you will lose all benefits of being neutral or good.
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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #9 
 Armed with this info, one sees the Orc Hut cast in a whole new light. I personally like the Big Troll, to take out an Orc Hut should incur casualties.
Perhaps someday, with the right skills and even then, by small chance, maybe Big Troll could be 'tamed' as say, a Heroes companion!?! [cool] hehe







  
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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #10 
Only dark race can have trolls since VERSION: 0.8.41.957 :
Trolls and Orc Commanders should not come to evil human player. They are available for dark side exclusively.
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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #11 
ahhh i see... i just tryed dark side for the first time. It makes sense and is a whole new game
... was having fun when i thought anything could command this troll in Orc Hut, and there he is at the head of my army!
...Newbs...[rolleyes]
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