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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #16 
[idea]Another idea - more of a wish really- itd be nice to somehow view my army men in my downtime. inbetween turns. to look more thoroughly at there skills, to help decide better army configurations, to rethink who i should/could send where...etc etc. Itd be awesome to be able to pull up the actual map at the time of my last turn- without being able to move anything of course. I always want to look deeper when its my turn, but at the sametime i find myself not getting too too deep, for simple fact that i dont want to delay turns more than i must- and also real life at times may supercede.
....And then i find myself sitting with coffee and a couple hours to spare, but its not my turn!! [smile]

just a simple roster list with skill details would perhaps work just as well. 
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Herystofanes

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Reply with quote  #17 
Go previously selected tile.jpg Move of the archer extends beyond map. To move him where I wanted and remember the exact place i have to scroll the screen. Instead I would want to have "go to previously selected tile on the map" button. Maybe it's not much - but the game will be smoother (it could be located near next/previous army)
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #18 
Ok, guys. Thank you! I will add your proposals to my to-do list. Currently I am mostly focused on AI engine development, but it's a long running task, so I will anyway digress to develop some other features.
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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #19 
As far as UI, i could stand to see the main map a little larger- theres alot room to breathe as far as functions go, even additions in the future look to have ample room. I very much like the size of the troop icons however, they are perfect (i have seen screenshots of the older days past, where the icons look much smaller)

On same topic, the combat screen (which rocks!) could benefit from being more centered imo- but besides this: if you have ever played total war series, i think it would be very cool if the battles show the terrain were fighting in, and it wouldnt even have to be complex, infact to keep with your ongoing simple sorta graphic theme (i actually like the simplicity of our graphics [cool]) it should be kept very simple > but say if your fighting in swamp the ground corresponds to that..or if its a road battle...a forest fight> even a few trees strewn about here and there will just add that small touch of whimsy. Also, you should have your incredible artist make a few borders for the different battle terrains we fight in, to frame our battle player. (when hes done with your other 211 projects that is [biggrin])

Also when a character levels up an attribute it says so on screen. i.e 'Lord Geffis learns forest hunter rank 4' - maybe even carry that info into the actual skill/attribute screen with said skill being highlighted that turn...

And rather than simply stating in the info panel that '4 troops can be promoted' > any troops that are promotable could have a red highlight around their icon (exmpl)... without looking thru the individuals skills to see who is ready
(although if memory serves, i do recall something on the troop icon that seems to show they are indeed ready?? [rolleyes] will be looking next time im in game> if it is the case scratch this idea suggestion [tongue])

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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #20 
WarMire you are reading my mind. [eek] (especially thoughts regarding combat screen)

I totally agree with you. [thumb] Combat screen and main screen should be redesigned, that's for sure. We'll try to resize the map area, make it a little bit bigger if it's possible. These changes are mostly blocked by our artist. I want him to design something pretty. But he has a lot of work to do now (weapons, armours and artifacts). Also I though about some sort of console where game messages could be stored and viewed.

Regarding level up icon - we have a veterancy sign (gold  medal) but it appears rather late and does not have a direct relation to things like ability to wear heavier armour.  Overall, units are silently upgraded. They receive new skills and need no player interaction, that's why our notification system is poor in this regard. We had ideas about unit specializations. To let player select some skills when unit is ready to be upgraded. Definitely, there's a lot of room for improvement here.
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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #21 
On the last topic above- i see now when archer or other light troops are able to upgrade armor, the armor bar under health points changes from blue to orange. This works fine once your aware...
Also i totally agree with your idea on eventually letting the player select skills upon upgrade. I can forsee many specializations: deadly mountain units- fast moving units- a squad of elite builders(engineers) etc...the list goes on and on.

Which brings me to this:
>catapults should be upgradable also
additional movement points 
longer range (3 instead of 2)
more food storage(even 2 makes them that much more formidable)
perhaps a defensive skill ie catapult is able to 'intercept' an attack against its own troops if their close enough...triggering a bombardment before enemy attack
Even if you set parameters to trigger a level raise 2x the average of troops in general; would add to the personality of our catapults. Veteran catapult squad 

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Toxaz

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Reply with quote  #22 
Catapult is quite strong now, 1 catapult is about 5 evil trolls. You need just 4-5 catapults (or one full stack of trolls) to destroy more then a half of castle defenders per 1 turn. Its not so much, I am big lover of collecting trolls to one stack, and I know what the great strength it is [smile] I think that castle sieges should be more protracted, so the current power of catapults is enough i think ahd there is no need to upgrade it[smile]
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WarMire

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Reply with quote  #23 
well my idea wasnt too make them stronger per say (more damage on bombardment) -but to simply add skill to them also. Historically speaking there is a huge difference between a siege team that has seen many battles, as opposed to a green team..which is why i used movement or food storage etc as upgrade examples. 

 I am with you sometimes i feel siege should be more protracted also. But i singled out catapults, for my lack of knowledge with dark or dwarven factions.
-Itll be a long winter and so i look forward to learning more about their siege tactics. 
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #24 
Experience for catapult crew is actually on our to-do list for a quite a time. It's not something that we thought was a must, but it's good to have, so we will implement it eventually. To balance this I had a plan to make Siege Master contribute some defensive bonuses to besieged castle.

Ideally, we would like to see the future where every unit's skill or trait could be enhanced by achieving specific experience. Like in Skyrim - you poke your enemy with a sword and ta-dah! your sword wielding techniques are improved [smile]
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Ganeleon

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Reply with quote  #25 
1. I think the idea of WarMire to interact with the game somehow between the turns is great. Actually I suggested nearly the same some time ago. To give a player opportunity to view the map and view the army stacks, like when you are checking your ally units. So you can plan and your turn before it starts. Lso it would be usefull for the "Fast game mode" which i have already described here. (WargameProject.com > Forums > General > Fast game in weekend)

2. Also I would like to suggest to discuss the in-game score rating system. I think it is giving too much info to your opponents. So you are commanding the units based on the information that enemy is already outnumbered and does not have knights and heroes (for example). So I suggest to make an option in the start game menu to disable it. 

3. Also I would suggest to make the fog of war smarter and does not reveal captured structures on the minimap unless they were scouted.

4. And some usability improvement request. Please make some notification in the client when your turn is starting and the game is in the main menu. As you need to monitor your mailbox all the time when you are making turns fast one by another.

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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #26 
1. Ok. This is what I will do next. Server support is also required.
2. Current implementation is temporary. Idea was to have a thieves guild and buy some information from there. Another idea was to spy with infiltrators to reveal secret information. And another idea was to capture and interrogate prisoners. Probably we will give different means to get information to different factions.
3. I'll think about that.
4. Will be done in next build.
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Herystofanes

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Reply with quote  #27 
Part of my priv message to megas (this part regards new ideas for the game)

I think there should be a mechanic that allows a stack to end turn "on guard" (skill which costs two move or somethink like that). It should allow a stack to intercept incoming attack on adjecent stack if the enemy (during the attack) attack it - this way it would be harder to overrun the elite stacks.

And I think there should be a gray way for doing human tactics. With reputation between -50 and +50. One should not get necromancers or priest but there should be a shaman (in wizard tower) and herbalist (in temples). First with enrage and summon hawk or wolf spells (or even bears - that would be cool - they should be a hill capable creature with high health - a tank sort of creature). Second with instant cure poison and cure enrage spells, he should not have instant heal and bless (comparing to priest), but with increse with natural heal over turn for the stack he is with. When the would level, there could be developement on the quantity of soldiers affected by spells. Or there could be a diffrent approch for shaman/herbalist - he would not cast, but he would go to forest/hills/water/plains and gather some igredients (like those red and brown(?) plants that are now in the forests) and then he could prepare potions for further use (Ideally there could be an option to pass them to other units - but as I see it we are far from reaching that point considering mechanics). Of curse they could do different potions.

Another idea - please give some infrantry an option to fish near water squares (It could be avalible only for light infrantry with spear and bowmen).

Another idea - let light infrantry go to/fight in half water/half plains squares (have would not have that option but they could rain showers of arrows on them and there could be penalties to defense for beeing in such square).

Enough for now. I'm eager to hear what do you have to say especially on the grey human topic.
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Baruk

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Reply with quote  #28 
Guard mechanics exists in game to some extent. We call it intercept.
  • Important structures (mines, villages, huts, etc) are intercepted automatically
  • Important armies(catapults, supply carts, ships) are intercepted automatically
  • Towers provide another form of guard mechanics -> guard area, but it is triggered when army enters the cell, not when it attacks army standing on that cell
  • Ambush is another form of guard mechanics. 
There are a lot of plans to improve this. I'll post my thoughts later on this topic.
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megas

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Reply with quote  #29 
A lot of interesting ideas Herystofanes! Its a pity we can not do everything though given limited resources, but lets think what we can and how to better incorporate your ideas into our existing game mechanics [smile]

I fully support further differentiation between reputation levels - bad (-50 and less), good (+50 and more) and gray/neutral (between -50 and +50). There is some basics of that already, but still a long road ahead. As of now it works like this - good human does not get necromancers (and orcs) and bad does not get priests (and knights). Neutral(gray) player however can do a little bit of both [smile] and in a way I think this is great - gray player still has a choice and his choices move him to one or another direction to a point where he becomes either bad or good and loses some possibilities while getting others from the side he has chosen. 

So gray player can get necromancers, but only in ruins - he can not produce them in magic towers! Accepting necromancers from ruins (and hiring bandits) is actually one of the ways to become a bad player, so I guess we need to keep that, also as opposed to production in magic towers player can not really get a lot of necromancers from ruins. 
Priests are currently very important in terms of game balance for human player playing against undead. The undead can be so effective that I would say human becomes an easy pray unless mass producing a lot of priests to counter the undead. So from this perspective we can not easily change this. However I believe we can balance the priests somehow so that good players get more benefit from them. For example currently temple levels up after some time and starts to produce 2 priests, instead one idea would be to produce 2 priests for the good player and leave 1 for gray, what do you think?

Actually there is already a new unit present in the game which is produced in the mage tower for good human only. Its a mage and currently it has the same properties as the priest (but it already has a different picture) simply because it was copied from him [smile] The open question now is what this unit should have? For example baruk wanted to give him some kind of fireball [smile]

So to sum this up lets break down how it works for different players:
  • Neutral player
Temple: produce priests, can get quests
Mage Tower: nothing, only brings mana
Knights: yes
Orcs: no
  • Good player
Temple: same as neutral player
Mage Tower: produce mage which is a blank unit now (copy of priest), we need ideas for it
Knights: more knights
Orcs: no
  • Bad player
Temple: useless - no priests, no quests
Mage Tower: produces necromancers
Knights: no knights, if player had knights and became bad - they will slowly start to leave
Orcs: yes! but no trolls
 
So in the current mechanics the main question is what should human get from mage tower when he becomes good player? What should mage do. And also maybe priests should become more effective for the good player too. Unfortunately we can not leave neutral humans w/o priests as in current game balance it will make them very vulnerable to the undead...

I very like your ideas about shamans/herbalist. This is an area which is almost blank at the moment. So your vision is that shaman will mostly summon beasts (or even can become a beast?) and herbalist will be some kind of support unit passively adding to the army props and can also have curing ability extracted from priest (or have it as well, but implemented differently)? In general sounds very promising to me and something we can do with relative ease. Some questions to be answered also - shaman and herbalist - which players should get them - are they evil/good? What should the herbalist do besides curing? We need some other ideas for him. Shaman can summon a lot of things no problem with ideas for him i think [smile]

Oh I think I had enough for now, my fingers need some rest from typing [biggrin]

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Herystofanes

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Reply with quote  #30 
I'll elaborate.

1. Baruk
I use those skills (maybe apart from Ambush - i didn't have the opportunity jet...) I just think that there should be some mechanic which could help to protect the most precious heavy infrantry for men from mass attack tactic. It should not be to strong to inbalance the game but it should help them defend.
It could be active intercept available for every stack if they choose that skill at expanse of - let's say - 4 move and energy, but in my opinion it could be to strong for a mechanic and it could slow the pace of the game (which is slow anyway [biggrin]).
Second option would be to give stacks with archers a "prepare volley" skill for 2 move and energy. It could work like guard mechanic for towers but instead of interception of whole stack it should trigger indirect fire (of one volley) event on the enemy turn. Or it could work more like interception and occur only if the enemy attack an adjecent stack.
Of course it could be also aplicable for priest (And it could be enough to power up good human) - but they would have "protect form undead skill" and it would trigger "banish undead spell", but I would advise only one interception for a stack in enemy turn in this case.

2. Megas
The closest to develope (from my feel) are the mages. A make an assumption that a mage have 10 own mana points. I have at least three suggestions:

Battle mage
He could work like lich but with more spell attack oriented combat. Maybe he should have permament arrow and/or spell shield on the battlescreen. Spells:
Fireball - good damage to one stack (1 turn cooldown, 10 mana cost)
Lightning storm - guaranteed one random unit kill in enemy stack (maybe it could hit multiple stacks or kill random 1-3 onuts in one stack, 2 or 3 turn cooldown, 10 mana cost)
Guardian shield - for one turn stack is immune to indirect fire skill (it could also protect from spells in the same manner, 2 turn cooldown, 10 mana cost)

Illusionist
It would be fun to play with false attack and regrouping options. Attacking illusion would create normal battlefield event but the illusions would vanish on first hit and could not attack. Illusion should have higher move but virtually no vision range (maybe only adjecent tile). They could disperse with time like zombies and should have 1 mana upkeep. Scouts should see them as normal units (scouts shouls have diffrent levels of scouting - eg. 3 lvls - and only the highest one should could spot illusions but that should not dispiel them). Spells:
Create army illusion - creates an army illusion on the map (3 turns cooldown, 10 mana)
optionally - create unit illusion - on casting spell we would choose the type of unit and it could merge with existing real armies (no cooldown, 1-5 mana cost dependable on unit type - mounts and heroes more expensive, light infrantry and archers less expensive),
Invisibility - One unit for one turn becomes invisible (anbush type invisibility, two turn cooldown, 10 mana)
optionally - Cameleon one unit for one turn appears to be of a diffrent type (eg. light infrantry as a hero or heavy infrantry etc. ; 1 turn cooldown,10 mana)
Dispel illusion - should work on entire stack (no cooldown, 5 mana cost) 

Summoner/conjurer
I thought of some mage to counter demons an boost existing armies.
Banish demon - banish one demon from enemy army or it could work like banish undead spell (including "protect form undead/demon" concept, 2 turn cooldown, 10 mana) - not 1 turn cooldown - it would unbalance fighting with dark forces... but it should be checked via playing
Summon mist - it should create a mist on one field on the map - it should hide units like forest/hills concealement skill and in addition could make scouting units inside harder (scouting reports would give inaccurate results; 2 turn cooldown)
Conjure item - create an item like shield or armour for one unit (it should only be able to replace broken piece of armor/weapon and add an shield for unit - not to replace it with better one - that should be something in dwarven magic/mechanic; no cooldown, mana cost depending on item)

I'll make another post on grey human topic but its enough for now.


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